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 LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change

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Michal
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PostSubject: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Mon Jul 14, 2014 2:28 pm

I would like to propose change some rules. First concern vip hurting. It become nowadays standard that all teams tactical hurt VIP what eliminate stingers and is a reason very defensive game play from suspects side. In previous cup we played several times game when VIP spend around 90% round time aside spawn and count for some random bullet or nade. Well that would have a sence but only if spawncamping is allowed. If you push harder than you are never sure if referee will not punish a team penatly one round cause vip wasnt inside spawn but aside couple centimeters. In my opinion that lame and previous tournament was kinda borring cause a lot of teams used that simple tactic. So I propose to disallow vip hurting or allow spawncamping so maybe some teams will think twice if it is worth to camp swat with vip behind them.
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BuG_MaSteR



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Mon Jul 14, 2014 5:29 pm

You cant prove other's that they hurt VIP, better install this mod which set VIP HP automatically.
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JF||ActinD



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Mon Jul 14, 2014 8:24 pm

If ref is in SWAT team he will see if they're hurting him or not -.-
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Sun



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:05 pm

not much time left to change rule but poll has been added, and will close on Friday night. If "Yes" option has a clear win, rule can be changed

*moved to Schedule section to increase exposure
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Michal
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:02 pm

Well I can bring here members to vote like I wish but it is pointless since other clans can do as well. I think each clan should got only one vote. So maybe instead anonymous poll which can be easly manipulated we may invite captains of team to mark only 1 option by info in post. I guess that isnt hard to contact with 10 ppl charge of own teams.
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Sun



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:05 pm

PM sent to all team reps
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ghost_assassin



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:13 am

Well in my point of view spawn camping should be allowed, but about prehurt I am not sure because if VIP is not prehurted then first thing sus will do is hurt his leg and then again stingers cannot be used. This will make game even more boorish as VIP will be more cautious about himself
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:17 am

hey guys i will vote allowed hurt vipo Smile

<TWT>TUGA
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:26 am

I don't get the point why a not prehurt VIP would take more risks in running out of his spawn (he still has just his crapgun).
Also, when prehurt is forbidden, leghurt should be forbidden too.
And what happens when you "accidently" hurt VIP. I guess people can fake this accident easily, also suspects, if leghurt would be forbidden. It will just cause drama.
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tommyHILFIGER



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:06 am

I voted for:
- Yes, VIP pre-hurt should not be allowed
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saikrishna7



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:10 am

Both the things(allowing/prohibiting) have their own pros and cons.So,we will gain nothing by forbidding it.Also agreed to Rid's views
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|WM|Linux

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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:29 pm

If VIP shouldn't be touched at all, Sierra would make him spawn with 1 hp. I don't understand what does suspects hurting VIP change? He is always hurt in legs by sus when seen. So why is this different? Prehurting him as SWAT kills the fun of the game. Also that waiting in spawn for last 2 mins. Allowed spawncamping eliminates that. Just my opinion.

And that excuse thing. Sounds stupid imo. It isn't excuse for your mistake.

Accidental hurt is different, it can't be faked imo.
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valeRaaa

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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:50 pm

voted for first one coz all teams do this simple tactic. i think teams should find other tactics for win game instead of this tactic
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RuGiZuGi



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:01 pm

To be honest, I'm not willing to waste time, hunting camping swats in front of vip ready to die from flashbang, like in last vip tournament. It never used to be like this back in the past. Last tournament was pure shit with those pussies hurting vip all the time. That is not the way it's meant to be played or making fun. Have some balls and win with skill instead of that bullshit. I thought we want to have fun in a final cup, before swat can rest in peace on the hard drive.

I don't know about other wm members, but I definitely won't participate if hurting vip is allowed.
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RuGiZuGi



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:03 pm

Looks like teams with balls are already gone...
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:19 pm

Well I'd like to play without prehurt too ofc. But the problem are suspects' leghurt and what the referee should do if VIP gets "accidently" hurt Smile Come up with some solution.
Also I remember that we only had to endure vip prehurt in matches against WM or Delta in past^^
You guys perfectionated it. In our match you even prehurt the SWAT running in front of vip so VIP and SWAT die both with the first shot^^
The other teams didn't prehurt until the last tournaments, ofc it sux when everyone is doing it now.
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Troczu



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:28 pm

I already voted. My vote goes for : Vip pre-hurt should be allowed.
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:50 pm

Install random VIP HP mod and all problems are gone.
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ghost_assassin



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:12 pm

Yes random can be good idea ranging from 50% to 200 % but the only problem is VIP will still be venerable to stingers if he has 50% health, it would be more like prehurt
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RuGiZuGi



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:25 pm

I can't remember that Riddick, guess you mix something with fake delta sonny Stuss. I think deltas last tournament was 2010 in RD.

Anyway.
And suspects hurting vip legs is nothing new or special, but rarely seen in a serious match. It's their risk to shoot his leg or probably kill him. Don't understand what is the problem.

I don't want to bi**h around, just my 2 cents. All I want is a clean and enjoyable last tournament. I want to play a swat tournament and not something like 'hej-lets-hurt-the-games-objective-until-it-dies-by-catching-flashbangs-and-camp-10-minutes-in-secure-spawn-until-we-cannot-lose-anymore-and-rush-to-exit' tournament. That is definitely not swat4. But it's our tournament together, everyone is free to vote. If you decide to 'play' like this, go for it. I'm not gonna join
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RuGiZuGi



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:26 pm

I can't remember that Riddick, guess you mix something with fake delta sonny Stuss. I think deltas last tournament was 2010 in RD.

Anyway.
And suspects hurting vip legs is nothing new or special, but rarely seen in a serious match. It's their risk to shoot his leg or probably kill him. Don't understand what is the problem.

I don't want to bi**h around, just my 2 cents. All I want is a clean and enjoyable last tournament. I want to play a swat tournament and not something like 'hej-lets-hurt-the-games-objective-until-it-dies-by-catching-flashbangs-and-camp-10-minutes-in-secure-spawn-until-we-cannot-lose-anymore-and-rush-to-exit' tournament. That is definitely not swat4. But it's our tournament together, everyone is free to vote. If you decide to 'play' like this, go for it. I'm not gonna join
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:43 pm

Well those matches were boring to watch I'm sure^^
and often also boring to play them...
So if it stays with VIPhurt allowed, we could mb reduce to 8 rounds per match? At least we play 1.1 where 8 rounds is standard and not 1.0 Smile Last tournaments showed rounds go mostly over the full time, so.. I dont like 2 hours match plus the hour you have to wait between rounds and for people who can't install antics properly
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:12 pm

I'm going to agree with Rugi, its not realistic for SWAT team to hurt one of their own and wait on him to die in order to win, kills the game and fairplay. Would hate to wait the last 2 mins of the round for the VIP to get out of spawn which was the case in most matches in previous tournament.

Just wonder what would the punishment be if this is voted Yes.


Edit: Is there a way to cancel my vote, voted No by mistake.. didn't read.
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ghost_assassin



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 5:43 pm

Voting doesn't matter dida, as michal rightly said that every clan will ask their members to vote, a team vote will be counted here. Uptill now wm jf cartel twt freelancer and esa showed what they would like
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Sun



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:13 pm

Added option to change vote. Only Team Rep's views will be initially considered but if it's tied 5-5 then it will be decided by the overall vote here.

Currently it's 4-3 in favour of changing the rule, waiting for MYT, SoH and DoK's views..
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BRAVO
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 7:51 pm

For me pre-hurt is a shame tactic, but it's easy to hurt VIP and make it seems like accident, so who can ensure that?

For SoH neither pre-hurt nor spwan camp should be allowed.
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Michal
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 8:12 pm

Well so maybe it is good solution to install mentioned mode and make vip health random.
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Sun



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:14 pm

the only drawback is that there is a console command which reveals your health: http://swat4news.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/barely-known-console-commands.html

Atleast 3 teams have members who know about this command
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:32 pm

And that is useful because...? I don't know the command but seems useless to me.
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Sun



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:17 pm

For example if you used this on MYT server which has the random health mod, you can see exactly when he has health of 50 or even 250. With a little bit of knowledge on damage a particular bullet gives, your team can prehurt you safely
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:47 pm

I think health mod will not solve this problem for 3 reasons:
1- if health is 50% its like you give swat an official pre-hurt without any risk and all teams will avoids stinger for this reason.
2- cause of the console command, some players can know health but others can't. I see this is not fair, even if all know the command they will know vip health and we back to the same problem.
3- Its seems like playing will depend on luck !
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|MYT|oo7



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:29 pm

for those who want to no pre hurt the vip go play BS ! we do that for years why should we change it now? are you afraid or what?! i see no reason to change that rule.
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tommyHILFIGER



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:01 pm

Ahaha, you made me laugh.
Maybe you're just afraid of no skill or idea for game? Very Happy
Sorry but your post is hilarious, generally I dont really care if this rule will stay or not, but you seem to be frustrated and do prehurt every war as if it depends on your win or lose.
At least now I know to not take nades against your team :v
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Michal
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:32 am

Yes Im afraid that cup but still didnt loose against myt since couple years Wink We played couple tournaments with different rules so np if majority will vote to allow vip hurt I will accept it. Than for sure teams have to preper game against myt with vip hide 10 min in basment (red lib). Have fun referees Wink or atleast there is other solution to add extra time after arrest vip for teams which whole game defend own respawn and rush with vip when is less than 2 min till the end round.
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Thu Jul 17, 2014 8:10 am

Are you afraid or what? ROFL I thought VIP prehurt and him hiding for last 2 mins is pussy tactic sorry all I will change my vote.

#yolovipprehurtforeva
#gonnahavesomuchfun

Compare tourneys from golden SWAT era and this few prehurt tourney. I'd rather play 1 match in 2011 than 10 prehurt ones. It's just a waste of time, we can put 2 min per round immediately to save time.
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RuGiZuGi



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:06 pm

Yeah, I have nothing to add there, Linux
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mff



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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:54 pm

|MYT|oo7 wrote:
for those who want to no pre hurt the vip go play BS ! we do that for years why should we change it now? are you afraid or what?!

we afraid you might kill vip prehurting, again
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:42 pm

This discussion still not finished a day before first match...
We need some decision now. Also I want again ask for a reduction to 8 rounds per match...
I'm not willing to play 2-3 hour matches, not even to think about the referees to waste 3 hours.

(And even in end of 2012 when we played MYT vs FA, MYT didn't prehurt the VIP, nor did we; and that without having to agree on it...so its not "for years"...but I'm not surprised, as you also declined my request to not prehurt VIP in our last funwar...)
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PostSubject: Re: LOCKED: VIP Pre-hurt Rule Change   Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:55 pm

Since the DoK rep can't understand english/can't be bothered to reply, the vote stands at 5-4 in favor of changing this rule.

Therefore, this rule has been changed. VIP prehurt is henceforth not allowed. Breaking this rule = round lost. Referees are advised to remain vigilant when on SWAT-side.

However, it will remain 12 round matches because apparently the VIP is not a 'pussy' anymore, he is officially a gangster now so rounds can expect to finish quicker.
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